"You can't decarbonise the world unless you decarbonise its cities"
Full interview with Marvin Rees on centralisation vs devolution and more
Earlier this week I interviewed the Mayor of Bristol, Marvin Rees, following the end of the Cop26 talks in Glasgow.
When I set up this Substack I wanted it to be an opportunity to talk about a number of issues that are of importance to a modern left. This interview with Marvin Rees addresses some of those - in particular devolution (and devolution vs centralisation); climate change; the power of cities as an engine for change; the need to avoid counterposing different parts of Labour’s potential alliances - towns and cities, north and south and so on.
As a mayor of a city with a strong radical tradition and many profound challenges his office are tackling questions that have a wider relevance, and his views are therefore of interest to a left audience in its broadest sense.
Many thanks to Marvin for agreeing to take part in this discussion.
Simon Fletcher: So the first thing Marvin I just want to talk to you a bit about Cop26. And it was obviously good to see that you were up at Cop26. Now that it's over, how do you feel about the outcome? Was it a failure?
Marvin Rees: I think failure would be a bit harsh. And a bit simplistic. I think I think COP has to be judged on a range of fronts. In some areas, it would be strong, some areas it would be weak, in some areas it would be a failure. I said going into it that whatever comes out of COP has to be a plan - it has to be attached to measurable real places, measurable outcomes, set against real dates and real finance. COP certainly hasn't met that criteria as far as I can see. Where you can draw some hope is there we're still talking about 1.5, and people started to talk about money at last: you can't get to decarbonisation on best wishes and policy without money. Where it's weak is that money has not actually been attached to mayors. I think focusing on cities and decarbonising the cities is the missing piece in all this. And that's where it has been underwhelming.
SF: Yes, you were there with the other mayors and city leaders but the mayors aren't directly part of the talks are they, and that must be quite frustrating from your point of view.
Marvin Rees: Oh it's frustrating and it's a massive… it's incompetent to be perfectly frank. You can't decarbonise the world unless you decarbonise its cities. And poor urbanisation, chaotic, unplanned urbanisation will be one of the biggest threats to our ability to decarbonise. And that means you have to get on top of both cities as they are, and the processes of urbanisation. And that means making sure there's finance available to mayors who are running those processes of urbanisation, shaping them with their teams. And the fact that that's not included is a major misunderstanding of the way the world is actually running today.
SF: I saw in the run up to the summit that you were saying that cities, particularly in this country, need steady, predictable finance, if they're going to play the role that's needed in decarbonising urban areas. But given how centralised taxation and finance are in this country, that's quite a big ask, isn't it?